bill clinton tried the approach that i'm talking about. we created 23 million new jobs. we went from deficit to surplus. and businesses did very well. so in some ways we've got some data on which approach is more likely to create jobs and opportunity for americans. and i believe that the economy works best when middle-class families are getting tax breaks so that they've got some money in their pockets. and those of us who've done extraordinarily well because of this magnificent country that we live in, that we can afford to do a little bit more to make sure we're not blowing up the deficit. >> jim, the president began this segment. so i think i get the last word -- >> you're going to get the first word in the next segment. >> but he gets the first word of that segment. i get the last word of that -- i hope. let me just make this comment. let me repeat what i said. i'm not in favor of a $5 trillion tax cut. that's not my plan. my plan is not to put in place any tax cut that will add to the deficit. that's point one. so you may keep referring to it as a $5 trillion tax cu